IP With Prof Feroz – Patent Agent Exam Preparation Training Podcast Transcript This podcast features: Various sections and sample questions for patent agent exam. Strategies for training and how best to prepare for the Patent agent exam. What’s on offer from LexCampus for this year’s exam. Venkat: Hello everyone, welcome to our podcast, this is our podcast session 2. Here we are going to talk about patent agent exam preparation and coaching. In the last session, we heard Professor Feroz Ali explain in great detail about who a patent agent is and the career prospects for a patent agent. As a follow up to that, in this session we are going to talk more about the patent agent exam preparation and coaching and with me is Professor Feroz Ali. Welcome back professor. Prof Feroz: Hi. Venkat: So, here we are going to discuss in great detail about preparing for the patent agent exam. So, do we know when the patent agent exam is for this year? Prof Feroz: As we said, the exam is likely to be sometime before December. That’s what the notification tells us. We can expect some more information to come in the forthcoming weeks. Venkat: Is that sufficient time to prepare for this exam? Prof Feroz: Enough time depends on what stage you are, enough time depends on what is the background knowledge you have in this area, enough time also depends on how much time you have going forward. So, typically a person who knows nothing about patent law, he doesn’t know where to look for, he has you got no exposure to the subject, we could expect a person to put in at least six months of effort, continuous effort, to get to a place where they could be conversant with he subject. Now we say this as six months, because of the different type of people we have seen preparing for this exam. As a rule, a person who prepares for this exam would not have a legal background, so there are complexities that come in understanding a piece of legislation, which The Patent Act is a legislation passed by the Central Government of India and you will find that it also has certain complexities that comes out of the fact that it is a legal subject. So, six months is something that we would advise a person who has no background in law, whose knows nothing about intellectual property and who wants to do it part time. Let’s bear in mind, that preparing for the patent agent exam is likely to be a part time effort, you would be doing something else, you would be a student in the final year of college, you could be a person who is employed, you could be doing some other activity and hence this six month time period; but if you have some background this six month can be expedited, you can shorten this, but I would expect there to be at least minimum 3 months of a sustained preparatory efforts to clear this exam. Venkat: Okay great! I will get to the preparation part in the later part of this discussion, but before we get into that, is there a syllabus to prepare for this patent agent exam? Prof Feroz: The syllabus for preparing for the patent agent exam is being made very simple by the fact that the patent agent exam is a 2 part exam, there are two parts or two papers, which you have to clear. The syllabus for this exam is The Patents Act 1970 and The Patents Rules 2003. So these are two enactments, what you called legislations, which you could get, either you can download it from the websites or you could buy a Bare Act, which contains The Act and The Rules and this will be the syllabus for the examination. Now let us be clear when we say this is the syllabus, this is the material from which the questions can be asked, little does it mean that the questions will be straightforward questions, because we have questions in the patent agent exam which are problem based, you will be asked a situational problem and you will have to use the provisions of The Act to given a reply. So, that’s one kind of question that could come your way, where the Patent Bare Act will not help you to answer those questions, it’s your understanding, your analytical skills that is going to help you to answer that kind of question. The second type of questions, are questions relating to drafting. There could be a question, especially in Paper 2, the Paper 2 focused on drafting. There could be a question asking you to draft an abstract of a patent or a complete specification itself or draft 5 claims. Now there is no guidance that you will find in the Bare Act, but for drafting you will have to get separate training. Venkat: Okay, that is good to know. So you clearly mentioned about this Patents Act, is there a difference between The Patents Act and The Patents Manual. Prof Feroz: Yes, is there a difference between The Patents Act and The Patents Manual. The Patents Act is a piece of legislation passed by The Central Government. So, as we all know, for The Central Government to pass an act; it has to go to both the houses, the Lok Sabha and the Rajya Sabha and finally it has to get a presidential assent. Now, before this, the act has to be proposed in the form of a bill, so the bill becomes an act and The Act becomes a central government enactment, which is accessible for everyone. The Act has also provisions wherein The Central Government can create what we call rules. Now of The Act comprises of sections, wherein The Rules comprises of predominantly rules. Now 159, section 159, gives The Central Government the power to make rules. So The Act gives The Central Government the power to make rules. The Act and The Rules are different from The Manual. The Manual is an internal document prepared by the patent office for its internal purposes. The Manual is a summary of The Act and The Rules and it also has some additional information. Now, The Act is a piece of legislation passed by The Central Government. The Rule is a document that is created by The Central Government in light of the power under The Act and The Manual is a document that is prepared by the patent office. So, you can see these three things are three different documents prepared by three different bodies. One is prepared by The Parliament, the other one is prepared by The Central Government and the other one is prepared by The Intellectual Property Office or the Patent Office, because of the nature of these documents you will find that they have different effects. The Act prevails over everything. The Act is the most important piece of legislation. The Rules have to confirm to The Act. The Rules cannot go beyond The Act and The Manual has only a set of guidelines, it only has persuasive effect, in does not have binding effect. Venkat: Okay, so it is clear, like clearly more like The Patents Manual is sort of guidelines, more of a SOP for patent office to operate, if I am right? Prof Feroz: Yes, it is something which is created internally for the patent office as a source of codifying its practice, because as you know there are four patent offices and they want to streamline the practices of the patent offices, so a controller examining patent pertaining to a biotechnology application should be using the same principles in examining it as his counterpart in Chennai or in Mumbai would do. So for this, the patent office has developed a manual, which gives the common principles and guidelines to be followed while examining patent applications. Venkat: Okay got it, just to compare it with the US patent bar exam. In US, you pretty much follow the MPEP, which is the a manual, you read the entire manual in order to prepare for the patent bar exam, so here do we have access to The Patent Manual, do we need to study those manual also apart from The Patents Act to prepare for the patent agent exam? Prof Feroz: It is preferable to refer to the manual while preparing for the patent agent exam, but it’s not mandatory because unlike the USPTO, which conducts the patent bar exam, the examination is not based on the manual. In India, the examination is still based on The Act and The Rules, so it is not mandatory but giving The Patent Manual a good read will definitely help. Venkat: So it is more like they have to be well versed on understanding The Patents Act. Could you explain the split up of marks with respect to points? Prof Feroz: Paper 1 carries 100 marks and Paper 2 is for 100 marks. It will be good that if we look at the sample, now the sample question papers, the 2016 examination sample paper is available on the website, i.e., www.ipindia.nic.in/ so you will find the patent agent exam sample paper. So paper 1 is a two hour exam and you will find that there are three parts in Paper 1. Part A for 60 marks, Part B for 10 marks and Part C for 30 marks, so this is Paper 1. This is predominantly a MCQ, a multiple choice question paper, which has only multiple choice, some multiple choice questions may have multiple answers, so that gets tricky there. Paper 2, which is conducted on the same day, in the afternoon session, is a 3 hour exam. So paper 1 is a 2 hour exam as it was conducted in 2016; Paper 2 is a 3 hour exam and Paper 2 has three parts, Part A comprising of 20 marks, Part B comprising of 30 marks, and Part C for 50 marks. Venkat: Could you explain more on Part A of Paper 2, any example that you can share. Prof Feroz: Now in Part A you will find that there are questions, situational questions, where a candidate will have to answer those questions, it will require application of provisions of the law. For instance, in 2016, there was a question on co-inventors, A and B are co-inventors of a tracking device, later A files an application for a patent in his own name, B comes to know about this fact from the journal of The Patent Office, what action B can take to redress this injustice inflicted upon him by A? A typical situational question, you need to know the provisions of The Act, you need to know at what stage the intervention can happen, it is said in this question that files an application for a patent, so that is the situation of the case. Now, if the question is slightly tweaked, to say that A files an application for a patent and gets a patent granted, now the answer will change then, because if your intervention is at the application stage you need to do one thing, if the patent gets granted you need to do another thing. So just by a slight tweak in the question the entire answer can be changed and so it will tell you that you need to be conversant with the provisions and to know, which provision will apply at which stage of the life of a patent. Venkat: Okay great! Is there a cut off for clearing Paper 1 and Paper 2? Prof Feroz: I think is 50 marks, and this you will find in The Patent Rules, this is what The Patent Rules says, rule number 110 and sub rule 3, a candidate shall be required to secure a minimum of 50 marks in Paper 1 and Paper 2 and shall be declared to have passed the examination only if he obtains an aggregate of 60% of total marks, so you need to get 50 each in both the papers and your aggregate had to be 60. Venkat: Okay, so a candidate if he clears Paper 1 and Paper 2, then he will be called for the viva voce exam, correct? Prof Feroz: Yes, with an aggregate of 60, if the person/candidate clears it they will get an invite for the viva voce. Venkat: Is there a buffer time before Paper 1 and Paper 2 and before he appears for the viva voce? Prof Feroz: Yes, Paper 1 and Paper 2 are conducted on the same day, in the forenoon and afternoon sessions, so the examination is over in a day, and most likely we have seen that there is a few weeks time, because the patent agent examination is conducted in November, the results were declared in January, the next year, I will just give you a timeline. In 2016, the examination was conducted on 29th November 2016 and the results were published on 12th January 2017 and by the time, the results were published, the viva voce was also done. So the viva voce was done sometime in December. So, you will see that, there is easily a one month gap between the examination and the viva and once the viva voce is done then within 2 weeks you can expect the results to be there. So put together, in the last year, in one and half months the entire process was done. Venkat: Okay, so for Paper 1, if I understand right, so it’s a multiple choice question and Paper 2 is more of a descriptive type and viva voce is completely different, so is there a special way or is there a specific way one has to prepare for viva voce than Paper 1 and Paper 2? Prof Feroz: See, the preparation for all these 3 things are different. Paper 1 would require you to understand The Act and The Rules in great detail and Paper 1 is the paper, which most people get to clear. Paper 2, because it’s a written paper, you need to be conversant in your English writing. Writing is a skill that is now not in great need and you will find that some people do have issues when it comes to describing things. So, Paper 2 will require practice, you will need to have practice sessions, you will need to do some mock tests and only then you are going to get prepared for doing Paper 2 on time. In fact, there was one candidate who got excellent marks in Paper 1, but he did not manage his time, the last time around, to clear Paper 2, in all probabilities the candidate should have cleared the exam, had it not been for time management issues, which is connected to how you write your paper. Paper 1 and 2, as I said requires different kind of training. Paper 1 you have to be conversant with The Act and The Rules. Paper 2, you have to repeatedly read quite a lot of patent specifications and draft quite a lot on your own, that’s the training you are going to do for clearing the patent agent examination Paper 2. Viva voce can be an entirely different ball game, because they may not test you on The Act and The Rules, because you’ve already cleared that. They may ask you certain questions pertaining to patent law practice. They may ask you certain questions on intellectual property law. So that is something which could be a completely different thing altogether, but if you have done fairly well in The Act and The Rules and you are conversant with the subject, you know the subject well, then I don’t see any issues, but viva voce they could ask questions beyond The Act and The Rules, so you need to slightly have a much broader outlook in taking the viva voce. Venkat: In regard to viva voce exam, is it more of a situation based questions or they would ask you to name sections? Prof Feroz: You should not expect a repetition of the questions that have come in the exam. Viva voce will largely depend on the people sitting in the panel, so the best way to cover viva voce would be to get in touch with people who have cleared the viva voce and get a list of questions that are commonly asked and then try to make an idea about the kind of questions that are asked in viva voce. So that will be the thing to do, look at people who have cleared the exam and if this podcast channel can do that, that will be a great benefit for people, because as of now there is no guidance on how to prepare for a viva voce. So if you could invite people who have cleared the exam, ask them pertinent questions on what is the kind of question they had to face in a viva voce and how they answered it, and if you target people who have cleared the exam, recent exam, then you stand a good chance of telling people the kind of questions that are asked in the viva voce. Venkat: Great suggestion sir, we will make note of it and invite candidates who have successfully cleared viva voce. It looks like viva voce is a different ball game and needs different training, at this point do they need to train in parallel for viva voce or focus on Paper 1 and Paper 2? Prof Feroz: They should focus on Paper1 and Paper 2, because only if they clear Paper 1 and Paper 2 they need to worry about the viva voce, and expertise or proficiency in Paper 1 and Paper 2 will definitely help them to clear the viva voce. So, I would advise people who are preparing for this exam to concentrate on the syllabus of Paper 1 and Paper 2, not worry about the viva voce as Venkat has just mentioned, we could also explore the option of inviting people on this podcast to tell their experience on how they faced the viva voce and we could create a data bank of some really valuable inputs, which would help people to prepare for the viva voce. Venkat: So that clears the air, so it looks like candidates have to focus more on Paper 1 and Paper 2 at this stage and aim to clear Paper 1 and Paper 2 and then think about viva voce. So now we are clear with what are the components involved in the patent agent exam, how do we prepare for the patent agent exam? So you clearly mentioned there is a Patents Act book and people can always buy this Patents Act book, but is there a coaching centre, where do they go for getting trained for patent agent exam? Prof Feroz: Just how the examination process is not advanced, similarly the process of preparing for this examination is also, in a, rather I would say, it is in a nascent stage. So you do not have any reputed organization, which prepares people to crack this exam. We do not have organizations coming and telling us, like if you’d seen the recent newspapers. NEET results were all over the place, we had front page ads in the newspapers for a few weeks, when the IIT/JEE results came, again we had front page ads, rank 1, rank 2, rank 3, and quite a lot of activity, which you don’t see for the patent agent exam, which tells us that because the number of people who take the examination is relatively low, but it is fast picking up, we do not have any recognized centers and there is also another issue connected to this, unlike the NEET or the IIT/JEE where you know that it’s the subjects that have been taught in school that is going to be taught here, these are subjects which nobody has ever learnt. A person who would have done his BE, say in mechanical engineering, would not have come close to anything pertaining to the law. A person who has done his BSc in any branch would know nothing about the law, so this creates a gap, which I feel that the market is finding it difficult to fill. So, you should ideally have lawyers training people to take his exam and those lawyer who know the law well should also have some background in science, because this is what we call a fusion subject, it’s a hybrid subject, the expertise for training people, it’s not your physics, chemistry, math teacher cannot simply train you for this, your Professor at an Engineering College cannot train you for this. Your lawyer who is practicing in a local court cannot train you for this. So you need people with hybrid expertise, by hybrid I mean expertise in two areas, and the people who already have that expertise are busy practicing, they are not into training, so that’s the reason you don’t find any centre or a coaching centre for this exam, because of the nature of the subject, it brings two unrelated disciplines and that’s the reason you won’t find the existing coaching centers even offering this, because it brings in two unrelated disciplines and makes a competitive exam and a career out of it. So you don’t have recommendations because as I said, it still is in a very nascent stage, where as if you just Google patent bar exam in the United States you will find a list of recommendations coming on your screen, which goes to show that it’s not only an advanced jurisdiction, the training systems are also much advanced and well in place, so because of the nature of this profession right now, we cannot make any recommendations for a particular centre or a particular coaching institution, because this is simply not being offered. Venkat: Okay, just to pick on that, so we are assuming that, if the exam is going to be in September or November, which will be two months or 5 months from now, I mean there is only one way possible for all the aspirants to get trained, either they have to sign up for the crash course, they don’t have an option of doing a methodical study at this point of time. So is the crash course the only option for them at this stage? Prof Feroz: A crash courses can help, now crash courses will pop up all over the place, I am just assuming that already people are making some offers on how training can be done, crash courses with will pop up all over the place and crash course has its own benefit. Assume that you plan to take 5 crash courses before taking the examination in November, say there is somebody who is offering you are crash course, 3 days intensive exposure to the subject and you do that in July and then again somebody else offers it in August you do that, again you come up to speed, in the meantime you do your own self study and there is another crash course offered in another place in September, you could do that, but the point is, the nature of the subject is not something on which you can learn or get expertise in a short period of time. You will at best get an exposure to the scheme of The Act, you would get exposure to themes like somebody may come and explain to you in an half an hour session what compulsory licensing is, but you will never be able to get into the depth of compulsory licensing unless you spend a few hours of reading and clarifying your doubts with somebody who can explain things to you. So you will find that crash course has its own advantages, but taking a crash course in itself is not going to make you prepare. So if I have to list out the methodology for studying this exam, by and large it’s going to be self study, and you need to have some kind of guidance, the guidance can come in the form of online courses, it can come in the form of crash courses, onsite crash courses, it can come in the form of working training seminar sessions, it can also come in the form of a course that I offered on NPTEL last year, there were two courses one on patent law for engineers and scientists and the other one was pattern drafting for beginners, I mean the YouTube link should still be available for those who are interested. So you could use this as a ground material, which could help you to understand the concepts. So the first thing is self motivation and self study. The second thing that you will need some kind of a guidance, guidance includes crash courses, workshops, online courses and even doubt clearing sessions. Then you will need to do quite a lot of mock tests, now this is a critical thing in clearing an examination of this type, because the examination Paper 1 is still based on memorization, I am sorry to say this, it’s not how things are there in the advance jurisdictions, but in our country it is still a memorization test and it defeats the purpose, because as a practitioner when you become a registered practicing patent agent, you are allowed to carry The Act and The Rules wherever you go. If you are in the patent office, in front of your client, somebody asks you a doubt, you can refer to The Act, but for some reason they have made memorization and you have really, really difficult questions coming out of because you cannot refer to The Act and The Rules. So had it been an open book exam, it would have been a much different thing, in the West it is an open book exam, but right now it is not, so because of the memorization component, you will need to do quite a lot of practice and mock tests for Paper 1. For Paper 2 you need to get hands on experience in drafting patents, for that again you need to identify classic patent specifications, read them, understand their structure, and have drafting exercises. So put together, your self-studying, external help in explaining your doubts and also in coaching you, your ability to solve multiple questions, mock tests and doing drafting on a regular basis, drafting exercises. These four things should help a person to crack the exam. Venkat: Sir, last time for the 2016 exam, at least I heard that, you had online courses available through YouTube and also you had some webinar sessions for training people for the patent agent examination, how do you plan to conduct it this time, for this year? Prof Feroz: This year I plan to take the online route very seriously, largely because of some strategic decisions I had to take, over the last 2 years since 2016 we have been getting requests from various aspirants across the country and I know for a fact that though there have been requests for me to conduct onsite classes and seminars, I don’t think I can even do justice to the number of request that have come, apart from the major cities and just to give you a glimpse of the kind of variety we have, there are people who have made a request from Trichy in Tamilnadu, there are people from Vizag, Gurgaon, Dehradun, Kanpur, Jaipur, Pune, Arambagh, Dehradun again, then you have people who have made a request from Sangli and Indore, then Nagpur, Bhubaneswar, I am just running through the list, Kharagpur, Navi Mumbai, Hyderabad, Roorkee, West Medinipur which I understand is a place in West Bengal, Bhopal, Ghaziabad, and even a request from Stockholm. So, it’s impossible for me to even try to look at onsite courses or even having a tour around the country to do this and for the reasons that I have just mentioned an online course for a subject of this nature, where you have to prepare for something in which you don’t have a background, every person who takes exam will have a science background, but not necessarily a legal background. So it’s an examination at the interface of two unrelated subjects, it would require people to get exposure to concepts, maybe listen to the lectures multiple times, which an online courses will allow you to do that, whereas crash courses, the impact of the crash courses is only when you are with the trainer. Once you leave the premises of the trainer and you are not in touch with the trainer, what happens if you didn’t get it, when it was explain for the first time and there are various concepts in patent law, which a person may not get at the first instance, it requires a much deeper engagement with the subject, so I have moved on to the online mode and I plan to offer a few courses in a kind of a basket, a basket of courses which people can pick and choose based on their level of expertise and their level of preparedness. Venkat: Do you have any other training materials other than just the online videos, training videos? Prof Feroz: Yes we do have materials, so one of the courses, which we are planning to launch on the patent agent examination, what we call the foundation course. The foundation course will have lectures and it will also have multiple choice questions at the end of each lecture. So you listen to the content and then you answer the MCQs and you should be done with that topic or that subject. So the foundation course will give you a broad overview of the syllabus for Paper 1 as well as Paper 2. Now apart from this foundation course, you will need tools to make you memorize, so we have a tools of memorization course, wherein we will have interesting graphs and tables and flowchart and also correlations, you know, many a times a form is correlated to a section or a rule, so we have these correlation charts, which will help you to memorize. We will also have, the last time around we had these charts for memorization, like there are for many things the time line is one month, for certain other things the time line is 2 months, so you could have different charts aggregating all these timelines in one place with all cross references, so that’s a tool for memorization, there will be a course on the tools for memorization, apart from these 2 courses, the foundation course and the memorization course, we also plan to have a mock test. The mock test will have at least 3 or 5 papers, they can take it in an examination setup, and finally we also plan to have an interactive session for doubt clearing. Venkat: Okay, other than the course content, do you have something else to offer? Prof Feroz: Yeah, lecturing as I said is only one part of preparing for this exam, it’s just one component, I had mentioned four components that you need to do, the first component is a lecturing part. Self-study will mean that you will have kind of a solid relationship with The Patents Act and The Rules. So you should be reading that book, in and out, everyday trying to understand it, getting your doubts clarified, so you need to have a Bare Act in your hand and most of you may have it and online copies are also available. In the course of preparing, people over the years, we found that a book which has a cross reference could really motivate and it could also quicken the process of learning. So we did develop last time, last year we did develop a Bare Act with cross references, so it was still in the preparatory stage last time, but now we are planning to release the book, the book should be available for the mass market. So it’s an interesting book and you will see in the videos that we have prepared, we actually relay parts of that book. So if you are watching our videos, the newly prepared videos, having this book will be a great help, because actually portions of the book that has been relayed on the videos and so that brings familiarity and because it’s a colour coded book, it should be very easy for people to navigate it, and more importantly we have cross references to the book, which makes it very easy for you to understand what are the relevant rules connected to a section when you look at it, the cross references are given in the margin. So that’s one tool, which we have developed and which we would expect people to get benefited from. Then as I said, you need to do quite a lot of mock tests. So mock tests is something, which we are really looking forward to; we will have a set of mock tests released and people can take that exam and if they do it after some exposure to the study material and they will actually you know good they are and how they have done so far in their preparations, so the mock test could also be an instrument for gauging the stage at which they are. The last time around when the examination was conducted, we released a mock paper 1 question paper, the link is still available, we will reproduce the link and we have seen more than thousand downloads of the same question paper. So, this is something which will be effective and useful in preparation. Apart from this, the last time around I had various online sessions and I was coaching quiet a lot of people, this time too, I would be offering online sessions, where people can login and they can clear their doubts and it would be more like a revision come doubt clearing session. So these are the different things apart from the course. The course is what we call a foundation course, there will be preparatory material, like a cross reference Bare Act and there will also be memorization tools, which we are developing. We will soon get samples on the LexCampus website, you will find samples there and you can download them. So these are essentially tools, which will quicken the memorization process and which will help you to retain information when you go for the examination. So memorization tools, foundation course, mock tests and sessions for clearing doubts. So these are the things that we are planning to offer. Venkat: Oh! Great! That sounds exciting. So I cannot wait to get my hands on to the book that you mentioned. Is it available for purchase? Prof Feroz: Yes, it will soon be available for purchase. You will have a link appearing on the LexCampus website and the hardcopy will be available for purchase. Venkat: Great and let me pick on something that you mentioned. You mentioned a separate training on memorization, so a memorization tool, what exactly is that? Prof Feroz: For instance there are close to 30 forms, more than 30 in fact, the last form is 30, but you have 7 and 7A, so you have more than 30 forms, which just mention a form number and that form has to be used for a particular transaction at the patent office, each form also has cross reference to different provisions of The Act and The Rules. In 2016, I am just giving you an example of how memorization can be critical. In 2016 question paper, question 8 is this, I will just read out question 8 to you. “Which form is required to be filed for expedited examination of patent application under section 11B and rule 24 C? a) Form 18A. b) Form 18. c) Form 18C. d) Form 19.” Now there is no way you can answer this question without actually memorizing the details, the provisions, and the forms. So, this is where you need tools for memorization. A tool for memorization could be a chart, a flowchart, an anagram, or a nice day in which you can store and reproduce the information. So, we’ll have some of them displayed on the LexCampus website soon, so you could get to see that, so that itself requires an effort, the memorization tools have to be in such a way, because this is a typical question which tells you that you need to know the numbers. Venkat: Going back to the question, you mention like forms with 18, 18A, 18C. So it’s too early to discuss about questions, but how to remember these forms, is there a specific way? Prof Feroz: If I am preparing somebody for an exam, I would not have a false choice as one of the choices, I would not do that, a false choice as in, a choice that doesn’t exist. Now there is no from 18A or form 18C, because when you say form 18A, that choice is a choice that you have expressed in the examination of a thing that doesn’t really exist. If you take earlier question, like question number 6, which is again something which plays on your memory, I will read out question 6. “The time period for paying renewal fee without extension as per section 142-4 after the recordal of a patent is: a) 6 months. b) 3 months. c) 9 months. d) 12 months.” This is a standard question where you can ask things to confuse people, it could be 3, 6, 9, 12, but when you create new stuff like 18A or 18C, these are forms that don’t exist and it doesn’t really help the student apart from confusing the person. So I would prefer having real choices, so that you could also let people learn through that. Venkat: So, you mean to say that in this memorization tool, you will help aspirants to clearly understand or a way to understand how these forms are linked to various sections? Prof Feroz: Yes, for instance, in the memorization tool to remember all the 30 forms, we will very clearly tell them that, in the forms there is only one alphabet related form that is 7A, so once they get that they will know that 18A and 18C is nothing humbug, it is not a real choice, so the tools are going to give you a comprehensive understanding of the provisions and we will be putting different sections in different buckets, and tell you that all the things are related. For instance, form 17, form 19, form 20 and form 21 are all related to compulsory licensing, so once you group them together it makes it much easier for you to understand how the forms interplay with each other or how they are related. Now there are also, in the question 6 that you just saw, they would ask you things which would take 9 months, which would take 6 months, so we have also created chart which shows a 2 month chart, which tells you all the instances in the Patents Act, where 2 months is the time period. There is a 3 months chart, every instance across the board, which tells you for this, 3 months is the timeline. So, we have created such tools and those tools we hope there is a one month memorization timetable, there is a formula for calculating the fees, now all these things will be a part of the memorization tool, that is a formula which you can apply for individual and you can get to know what is the corresponding fees for MSMEs and corporate. So you can just apply the formula. Venkat: If I remember right, you mentioned one more session where there is a doubt clearing session, when is it conducted, how often is it conducted? Prof Feroz: The doubt clearing session would most likely run in parallel with the classes, so you will be taking your classes and you maybe having doubts that pop up, now this could be on weekends, it could be much shorter and to bring benefit it will be a small group set up, because the last time around when I did this, there were quite a lot of people in the class and I personally feel that you will be able to do justice, if there are fewer people in the class so that you can do justice to the questions raised. Venkat: How many mock exams you are planning to give? Prof Feroz: Right now we are looking at 3 mock exams, so you can sit in an examination type setup and do it. Depending on the interest that people show, we could also come up with five mock exams. Venkat: That’s great, could you briefly explain us this package, is it all one package or you have different customized packages for people interested in? Prof Feroz: Okay, those details will appear soon on the LexCampus website, we want to keep it easy and simple for people to do this, because as we have already mentioned, patent agent exam is an examination at the interface of two different professions, so we just want to make it easy for people to take it up, so the foundation course will be something which anyone and everybody can do and based on their interest and their understanding of the foundation course they can decide on what else they will require. So most likely, this will be a pick and choose package and we also understand that there are many people who have given examination before who have knowledge about certain things, but say somebody who has all the materials to prepare but needs some doubt clearing session, so they can just pick and choose what they want, so most likely we will offer this as a package, where they can pick and choose things and customize it based on your requirement. So that’s the objective of this, it’s not one size fitting all, it is something which you can choose, pick and choose to fit your needs. Venkat: When do they get to hear the announcements soon from you? Prof Feroz: Now that this podcast is live, you should be checking the LexCampus page and all the pages on the courses will soon appear and once that is there as it appears I should be available for them. Venkat: So with only 2 or 5 months away from the patent agent exam, just to clear the air and boost the confidence for people who are planning to take this patent agent exam, people with no IP experience or no IP knowledge, do you think still they have a good chance of clearing this patent agent exam? Prof Feroz: Yes, they have a good chance because once you understand patent law, the other branches of IP will not pose any major problem for you, because of the three subjects that are critical, like patents, Trademark and copyrights, patent law is the most comprehensive and complex and advanced, so understanding patent law will give you some understanding about the fundamentals of intellectual property rights itself. Venkat: Thank you Professor for your time. Please subscribe to our LexCampus channel to listen to other podcasts.